Crwth Questions

[Cormac]

Having a Welsh heritage myself, and also re-enacting 5th Century Ireland/Dal Riada I was hoping some one could help me rectify these two statements.

"According to some of the sites below, the lyre had made it to Europe by the early Christian era, and the Crwth may have been in Wales at least as early as Roman times. So the Crwth seems a period instrument for our purposes."

AND

"The Tuatha de Bhriain is a re-creation society that attempts to re-enact the spirit and material culture of 5th century Ireland."

SO

The crwth may have been in Wales as early as Roman times, but that doesn't get it into Ireland. Especially since any Roman incursions there were not perminant enough to transfer music, and other cultural values. Which leads me to the conclusion that the crwth would NOT be suitable for someone portraying 5th C. Ireland.

Am I missing something (either logic-wise or archaeological evidence)? Truth be told I'd LOVE to find evidence that the Irish used the crwth! It'd give me the perfect excuse to get one made. Especially since my surname is "Crowther" which is the Angelicized form of Crwthr (one who plays the crwth).

[Comyn]

Aonghus might be able to provide some better information, but I think it might be easily conjectured that there was some form of communication/trade between the Celtic tribes of Wales and Ireland in pre-Christian times. The ancient Irish were certainly sailors in some form. Roman archeological remains in Ireland seem not to be associated closely with Celtic settlement areas that's true, but Romans were good record keepers and may have *recorded* the use of the Crwth in Wales. They were probably not able to do this in Ireland, but I don't think the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. These facts *suggest* to me that the Crwth (or some other regional form of the ancient lyre) may have been available to the Irish at or around that time. I claim in my persona story to have had regular contact with family in Cymru (Wales), so if this was not possible surely I would have been called to the floor on it already :) Perhaps my story should be calling that country Cambria?

[Guthrum]

That and we aren't going for a completely authentic recreation. All the instruments that we play and the songs that we sing are not period. The atmoshere that is brought about is authentic and of our time period. And that is something that can not be authenticated.

[Cormac]

Gotcha.

We've been searching for documentable musical instruments for iron age Ireland and have only been able to turn up the harp, drum and (IIRC) the flute. The crwth would have been a nice addition.

BTW if you want one built we've got a violin maker up here in Schuylerville, NY that has done other historical instruments and is willing to make a crwth. Macica Workshop

[Comyn]

I've been hoping to scam our resident luthier-in-training into making me one. He just finished a medieval fiddle which, I'm told, plays well. But I will certainly check out Macica, thanks! I go upstate pretty often, usually on the way to see family in Vermont so I can certainly swing by sometime too.

[Comyn]

I'm certainly interested in getting more period if possible though it's not possible to reproduce a music that no one alive has ever heard and for which there is no written record. Our interests are definitely about the SPIRIT as well as the material culture.

[Cormac]

I go upstate pretty often, usually on the way to see family in Vermont so I can certainly swing by sometime too.

Heh, small world. Depending on which way you take to VT you probably drive by our house. We're very close to 2 major Rtes NYC people use when heading into VT (usually on their way to ski or antique). We're 1/4 mile off of Rte 67 and 4 miles away from Rte 7 and the Tommahannock resevour.

[Cormac]

Very true. Although you can certainly get closer to the sound with period only instruments. For instance there are orchestras that play Bach with only instruments that were made during Bach's time. And it is possible and striking to hear a distinct difference between that performance and modern ones.

It's also possible to reconstruct music styles by removing influences that are known to have come later. Additionally, music if often tied to language. The cadence and tempo of songs can sometimes be predicted by the syllablic structure of a language. Of course that would mean the tunes would need to be sung in ancient Irish. Whew! THAT'D be some work.

But, I keep thinking back to a scene from a video "The Story of English" where an English professor picks up a harp and sings Beowulf. Period correct? Partially. Inspiring? ABSOLUTELY!

[Comyn]

We normally either run up 22 from the Taconic or else stay on the Northway to Rt. 149, but I see you must be right outside Hoosick & Hoosick Falls. That's a really lovely area, we've often thought about moving up to right near you - and one day we'll probably do it too.

[Comyn]

I am totally into experimenting with sound and this certainly includes investigating period instruments since I have another interest in our chosen Celtic period. There is certainly a place in our rather unique form of anachronistic re-enactment for serious period experimental archaeology, but as Guthrum suggested it's not a hard requirement. There have been times when there was no music at events at all, so we're permitted considerable wiggle room if we're willing to perform regularly.

The crwth would be fun to mess around with, but there is a reason why people don't play it anymore - it's just not as versatile as modern successors like the violin, harp, lute, or guitar. I can't seriously believe that I would be willing to trade in a guitar for a Crwth permanently. It doesn't have as good a dynamic or melodic range as a modern instrument, and period Crwths might not even have a fingerboard! To me that in itself is hard to imagine. They weren't bowed (one of the main attractions to me as a Cello player) until sometime between 800 and 1100, so to use it in it's 5th century form has limited appeal.

I was thinking about getting a lute. I've been following one lute player in particular who publishes videos of himself performing on Youtube, even though lutes are not our period, my interest is probably mainly because it's more like a guitar than a Crwth.

I'm scared of the harp, but it seems like anyone who dares to consider a bardic career better knuckle under and study a bit of harp sooner or later.