Early this morning the rising sun flooded the passage of Brú Na Bóinne with golden light.
Happy Winter Soltice everyone...
-Aonghus
Brú Na Bóinne (aka Newgrange)
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Use this forum to discuss topics of history or craft as related to our hobby.
As this is a PUBLIC forum, be discrete! Private matters should be discussed in the TdB Member forums!
Any post which is deemed too sensitive for public consumption may be moved to the Private Discussions forum by Moderators.
Newgrange
There is a series of photos posted on the Irish Times if anyone is interested.
Newgrange, being a neolithic structure associated with the Bell Beaker folk, it is not Celtic per se. By our period it had fallen into serious disrepair and was apparently no longer used as a ceremonial site. The mound had, however, made its way into the Irish mythology the place being associated either with the Tuatha de Danann (perhaps even the Dagda), or alternately the ancient Kings of Tara.
Newgrange, being a neolithic structure associated with the Bell Beaker folk, it is not Celtic per se. By our period it had fallen into serious disrepair and was apparently no longer used as a ceremonial site. The mound had, however, made its way into the Irish mythology the place being associated either with the Tuatha de Danann (perhaps even the Dagda), or alternately the ancient Kings of Tara.
Re: Brú Na Bóinne (aka Newgrange)
"Throughout the Iron Age (c.500 BC — AD 400) there is evidence of sporadic activity, including burials interred close to the main mound at Knowth and on the river terrace at Rosnaree. Late Iron Age / Roman items of high value, including coins and jewellery were deposited in the vicinity of Newgrange as votive offerings.
The introduction of Christianity in the early fifth century brought renewed activity to Brú na Bóinne. This and the later historic periods are summarised in the Historical Background section."
From: http://www.worldheritageireland.ie/bru-na-boinne/
The introduction of Christianity in the early fifth century brought renewed activity to Brú na Bóinne. This and the later historic periods are summarised in the Historical Background section."
From: http://www.worldheritageireland.ie/bru-na-boinne/
Newgrange may be entirely Iron Age
Another article in the Irish Times quotes a former State Archaeologist, one Mr Gibbons, who believes that the light box which allows light to shine into the tomb as well as the quartz siding of Newgrange were fictions created by the person in charge of the reconstruction of Newgrange in the 1960s and that the site was actually an Iron Age Hibero-Celtic ritual site and not as ancient as has been claimed. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. I haven't read too much into Newgrange, always believing it to be megalithic, but it seems the history of this place is not so nailed down as I thought.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ ... -1.2913483
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ ... -1.2913483
The article is either misquoting the guy or he's a quack.
Carbon dating and the artwork style well predate the iron age. The stones were carved with stone tools (not iron). The calendric use of monuments is not unique to Newgrange or its builders.
The quartz facade reconstruction has always been a matter of debate, but even if you were to lend credence to Gibbon's claim that Kelly fabricated the light box, it doesn’t change the fact that the passage aligns with the Winter solstice sun. Gibbon's is therefore accusing Kelly of a deliberate alteration of the site to capitalize on a chance alignment:
I don’t have a source off hand for this, but I remember reading that Newgrange is a bit off on its timing - however would have been accurate for the period it was built in. That is one heck of a fabrication to pull off - to not only improve the structure but align it to the rising sun of a few thousand years ago.
But even more compelling: Newgrange is merely the largest mound of a complex (and gets the most press). Knowth and Dowth are within a mile or so of Newgrange. Dowth also has sunbeam mechanic that illuminates a chamber on the Winter solstice - and that was only realized in 1980.
Unless Kelly had a time machine to visit the future his "fabrication" was blind luck in anticipation of consistency (of course a time machine would also have been useful for the ancient alignment issue as well). Or is it Gibbon’s assertion that Kelly altered the Dowth site in secret and brilliantly left it to be “discovered” 20 years later?
This guy Gibbons is either a quack, or the news source misquoted and distorted his paper to create hype and controversy. One paper by some guy disputing the antiquity of a site in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary?? I'd wait for peer review before entertaining any doubts if I were you.
In the mean time:
https://www.amazon.com/Stars-Stones-Anc ... 0500012954
If you would like to borrow this book, let me know.
The quartz facade reconstruction has always been a matter of debate, but even if you were to lend credence to Gibbon's claim that Kelly fabricated the light box, it doesn’t change the fact that the passage aligns with the Winter solstice sun. Gibbon's is therefore accusing Kelly of a deliberate alteration of the site to capitalize on a chance alignment:
But even more compelling: Newgrange is merely the largest mound of a complex (and gets the most press). Knowth and Dowth are within a mile or so of Newgrange. Dowth also has sunbeam mechanic that illuminates a chamber on the Winter solstice - and that was only realized in 1980.
Unless Kelly had a time machine to visit the future his "fabrication" was blind luck in anticipation of consistency (of course a time machine would also have been useful for the ancient alignment issue as well). Or is it Gibbon’s assertion that Kelly altered the Dowth site in secret and brilliantly left it to be “discovered” 20 years later?
This guy Gibbons is either a quack, or the news source misquoted and distorted his paper to create hype and controversy. One paper by some guy disputing the antiquity of a site in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary?? I'd wait for peer review before entertaining any doubts if I were you.
In the mean time:
https://www.amazon.com/Stars-Stones-Anc ... 0500012954
If you would like to borrow this book, let me know.
Michael Gibbons
The article had just appeared in the Times and I happened to find it linked in the same article I first posted. As it turns out, in the space of a day the OPW (Office of Public Works) has already issued a statement essentially claiming that Gibbons doesn't know what he's talking about. The article linked in the previous sentence has a couple photographs (one from the 30s and another from the 50s) which show the light box in position *before* the restoration work had even begun. I didn't know anything about Knowth and Dowth, thanks.
Re: Brú Na Bóinne (aka Newgrange)
The above should have had a cool pic in it... it shows in edit view but not the published?
so here is the pic, meant to show how improbable the fabrication idea is...
note: original post updated with image 170118
I'm glad you found an article soundly debunking the fabrication claim. Though, I'm left with the mystery of how my original greeting card attempt pear shaped into a reseach paper.
I just wanted to wish everyone a happy solstice. :-(
so here is the pic, meant to show how improbable the fabrication idea is...
note: original post updated with image 170118
I'm glad you found an article soundly debunking the fabrication claim. Though, I'm left with the mystery of how my original greeting card attempt pear shaped into a reseach paper.
I just wanted to wish everyone a happy solstice. :-(